Re: [新聞] 被拜登當成代罪羔羊 阿富汗陸軍將領投書
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/opinion/afghanistan-taliban-army.html
20210825 紐約時報 Sami Sadat
I Commanded Afghan Troops This Year. We Were Betrayed.
我指揮今年的阿富汗軍隊 而我們被背叛了
https://i.imgur.com/uBR4CtR.jpeg
For the past three and a half months, I fought day and night, nonstop, in
southern Afghanistan’s Helmand Province against an escalating and bloody
Taliban offensive. Coming under frequent attack, we held the Taliban back andinflicted heavy casualties. Then I was called to Kabul to command Afghanistan’s special forces. But the Taliban already were entering the city; it was too late.
I am exhausted. I am frustrated. And I am angry.
三個半月以來,我夜以繼日的在南阿富汗赫爾曼德省(Helmand Province)作戰,對抗攻勢越來越強烈的塔利班血腥進攻。接著,我被召回到喀布爾指揮阿富汗的特種部隊,然而塔利班已經開始進城,一切都太遲了。
我筋疲力竭又挫折,而且感到憤怒。
President Biden said last week that “American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to
fight for themselves.”
It’s true that the Afghan Army lost its will to fight. But that’s because of
the growing sense of abandonment by our American partners and the disrespectand disloyalty reflected in Mr. Biden’s tone and words over the past few
months. The Afghan Army is not without blame. It had its problems — cronyism, bureaucracy — but we ultimately stopped fighting because our partners
already had.
It pains me to see Mr. Biden and Western officials are blaming the Afghan Army for collapsing without mentioning the underlying reasons that happened.
Political divisions in Kabul and Washington strangled the army and limited our ability to do our jobs. Losing combat logistical support that the United
States had provided for years crippled us, as did a lack of clear guidance
from U.S. and Afghan leadership.
拜登總統上周的聲明說:「阿富汗軍隊都不願為自己打的仗,美軍不能也不該打,甚至為此喪生。」
阿富汗軍隊確實喪失戰鬥意志,但這是因為我們被美國夥伴遺棄的感覺越來越強,這反映了拜登先生過去數個月來言詞中的不敬與不忠。阿富汗軍隊固然有自己的責任,它任人唯親又官僚,但我們真正停止戰鬥的原因是因為夥伴已經撒手不管了。
看到拜登先生與西方官員責怪阿富汗軍隊崩潰卻不談論真正的原因,讓我很痛苦。喀布爾與華盛頓的政治分歧扼殺了軍隊,限制了我們執行任務的能力。失去美國多年來提供的後勤支援與阿美高層的明確指引,讓我們陷入癱瘓。
I am a three-star general in the Afghan Army. For 11 months, as commander of
215 Maiwand Corps, I led 15,000 men in combat operations against the Taliban
in southwestern Afghanistan. I’ve lost hundreds of officers and soldiers.
That’s why, as exhausted and frustrated as I am, I wanted to offer a
practical perspective and defend the honor of the Afghan Army. I’m not here
to absolve the Afghan Army of mistakes. But the fact is, many of us fought
valiantly and honorably, only to be let down by American and Afghan leadership.
Two weeks ago, while battling to hold the southern city of Lashkar Gah from
the Taliban, President Ashraf Ghani named me commander of Afghanistan’s
special forces, the country’s most elite fighters. I reluctantly left my
troops and arrived in Kabul on Aug. 15, ready to fight — unaware how bad the
situation already was. Then Mr. Ghani handed me the added task of ensuring the security of Kabul. But I never even had a chance: The Taliban were closing in, and Mr. Ghani fled the country.
There is an enormous sense of betrayal here. Mr. Ghani’s hasty escape ended
efforts to negotiate an interim agreement for a transition period with the
Taliban that would have enabled us to hold the city and help manage
evacuations. Instead, chaos ensued — resulting in the desperate scenes
witnessed at the Kabul airport.
我是一名阿富汗的三星將領。過去十一個月來我是邁萬德215軍團(215 Maiwand Corps)的指揮官,帶領一萬五千人在南阿富汗與塔利班作戰。所以,儘管既疲倦又挫折,我希望在此提供一個親身經歷的觀點來捍衛阿富汗軍隊的榮譽。我無意為阿富汗部隊的問題找開脫,但事實是,我們許多人英勇又光榮的戰鬥,卻被美阿領導層辜負。
兩周前,當塔利班正在進攻南部城市拉什卡爾加(Lashkar Gah)時,加尼總統任命我為阿富汗特種部隊的指揮官,這是我國最精銳的戰士。我在八月十五日不情願地離開我的部隊並抵達喀布爾,我雖然準備戰鬥但卻完全不知道情況已經這麼糟。加尼先生此時給了我保衛喀布爾安全的額外任務,但我根本沒機會執行:塔利班已經來了,而加尼先生則逃離了這個國家。
我感到一種巨大的背叛感。加尼先生倉促的逃難使政權轉移的臨時協議談判付諸流水,這個協議原本可以幫助我們擋住塔利班並處裡撤軍事宜的。現在,隨之而來的混亂導致了喀布爾機場所上演的一幕幕絕望場面。
It was in response to those scenes that Mr. Biden said on Aug. 16 that the
Afghan forces collapsed, “sometimes without trying to fight.” But we fought,
bravely, until the end. We lost 66,000 troops over the past 20 years; that’s one-fifth of our estimated fighting force.
So why did the Afghan military collapse? The answer is threefold.
First, former President Donald Trump’s February 2020 peace deal with the
Taliban in Doha doomed us. It put an expiration date on American interest in
the region. Second, we lost contractor logistics and maintenance support
critical to our combat operations. Third, the corruption endemic in Mr. Ghani’s government that flowed to senior military leadership and long crippled our forces on the ground irreparably hobbled us.
拜登先生在八月十六日回應說阿富汗軍隊已經崩潰「有時甚至沒有戰鬥」。但我們有,我們英勇的戰到最後一刻。過去二十年來我們犧牲了六萬六千名將士,這是我們估計戰力的五分之一。
阿富汗軍隊為何崩潰?答案有三重原因。
首先,前總統川普在2020年二月與塔利班在多哈(Doha)的和平協議毀了我們。他為美軍在阿富汗的利益設定了截止日。
第二,我們失去後勤與維修承包商的支援,這對我們的戰鬥任務至關重要。
第三,加尼政府的腐敗蔓延到了軍事領導層,無法挽回的癱瘓了我們的前線部隊。
The Trump-Taliban agreement shaped the circumstances for the current situation by essentially curtailing offensive combat operations for U.S. and allied
troops. The U.S. air-support rules of engagement for Afghan security forces
effectively changed overnight, and the Taliban were emboldened. They could
sense victory and knew it was just a matter of waiting out the Americans.
Before that deal, the Taliban had not won any significant battles against theAfghan Army. After the agreement? We were losing dozens of soldiers a day.
Still, we kept fighting. But then Mr. Biden confirmed in April he would stickto Mr. Trump’s plan and set the terms for the U.S. drawdown. That was when
everything started to go downhill.
川普與塔利班的協議形塑了當前的環境 ─它實質削減了美國與盟軍的進攻性戰鬥任務。
美國對阿富汗安全部隊的空中支援交戰規則一夕生變,鼓勵塔利班更加大膽。他們現在知道勝利是遲早的,只要等美國人離開就行。協議前,塔利班對阿富汗軍隊未曾贏取任何一場重大戰鬥。協議後呢?我們每天損失數以十計的士兵。
但我們仍持續戰鬥。接著拜登先生在四月證實了他將執行川普先生的計畫,並著手規劃縮減美軍的協議。這就是一切急轉直下的開始。
https://i.imgur.com/7Z3rt2F.jpg
The Afghan forces were trained by the Americans using the U.S. military modelbased on highly technical special reconnaissance units, helicopters and
airstrikes. We lost our superiority to the Taliban when our air support driedup and our ammunition ran out.
Contractors maintained our bombers and our attack and transport aircraft
throughout the war. By July, most of the 17,000 support contractors had left.A technical issue now meant that aircraft — a Black Hawk helicopter, a C-130
transport, a surveillance drone — would be grounded.
The contractors also took proprietary software and weapons systems with them.They physically removed our helicopter missile-defense system. Access to the
software that we relied on to track our vehicles, weapons and personnel also
disappeared. Real-time intelligence on targets went out the window, too.
美國人以美軍模式訓練阿富汗部隊,這基於高科技的特種偵察部隊、直昇機與空襲。當我們的空中支援枯竭與彈藥耗盡,我們就失去了對塔利班的優勢。
我們的轟炸、攻擊與運輸機在整個戰爭期間都由承包商維護。但在七月,一萬七千名支援承包商中的大部分都撤離了,這代表從技術上 ─黑鷹直升機、C-130運輸機與無人偵察機都全面停飛。
承包商還帶走了專用軟體與武器系統,他們實際拆除了我們直升機上的飛彈防禦系統。我們用來追蹤載具、武器與人員的軟體也消失了,目標即時情資亦不復存在。
The Taliban fought with snipers and improvised explosive devices while we lost aerial and laser-guided weapon capacity. And since we could not resupply
bases without helicopter support, soldiers often lacked the necessary tools to fight. The Taliban overran many bases; in other places, entire units
surrendered.
Mr. Biden’s full and accelerated withdrawal only exacerbated the situation.
It ignored conditions on the ground. The Taliban had a firm end date from theAmericans and feared no military reprisal for anything they did in the interim, sensing the lack of U.S. will.
And so the Taliban kept ramping up. My soldiers and I endured up to seven
Taliban car bombings daily throughout July and the first week of August in
Helmand Province. Still, we stood our ground.
塔利班使用狙擊手與IED作戰,而我們卻失去了空中與雷射導引武器的能力。由於失去直升機支援我們無法補給基地,因此我們的士兵經常缺乏戰鬥的必要工具。塔利班確實攻下了許多基地,但更多地方整個單位直接不戰而降。
拜登先生全面且加速的撤軍只加劇局勢,他忽略了實際情況。塔利班現在有了美軍離開的切確日期,可以在這段期間隨心所欲並完全不用擔心任何軍事報復 ─因為他們知道美國
並無此意。
因此,塔利班不斷變強。我的將士們整個七月到八月的第一周,在赫爾曼德省每天都要承受七次塔利班的汽車炸彈攻擊。但我們仍堅守陣地。
I cannot ignore the third factor, though, because there was only so much the
Americans could do when it came to the well-documented corruption that rottedour government and military. That really is our national tragedy. So many of
our leaders — including in the military — were installed for their personal
ties, not for their credentials. These appointments had a devastating impact
on the national army because leaders lacked the military experience to be
effective or inspire the confidence and trust of the men being asked to risk
their lives. Disruptions to food rations and fuel supplies — a result of
skimming and corrupt contract allocations — destroyed the morale of my troops.
儘管如此,我無法忽視第三個因素。當我的政府與軍隊有明證確鑿的貪污與腐敗,美國人能做的事情確實不多。這實在是我們國家的悲劇。有太多領導人 ─包含軍事領袖─ 都是
透過裙帶關係而不是資歷任命。
由於缺乏軍事經驗,他們無法有效激發冒著生命危險的人們對其抱持信心與信任,這對國家軍隊產生了毀滅性的影響。各種剝削與腐敗的撥款配給,導致食物與油料的補給中斷
,摧毀了我們部隊的士氣。
The final days of fighting were surreal. We engaged in intense firefights on
the ground against the Taliban as U.S. fighter jets circled overhead,
effectively spectators. Our sense of abandonment and betrayal was equaled only by the frustration U.S. pilots felt and relayed to us — being forced to
witness the ground war, apparently unable to help us. Overwhelmed by Taliban
fire, my soldiers would hear the planes and ask why they were not providing
air support. Morale was devastated. Across Afghanistan, soldiers stopped
fighting. We held Lashkar Gah in fierce battles, but as the rest of the
country fell, we lacked the support to continue fighting and retreated to base. My corps, which had carried on even after I was called away to Kabul, was
one of the last to give up its arms — only after the capital fell.
戰鬥的最後幾天是超現實的。我們在地面與塔利班激烈交火的同時,美國戰機卻在頭上盤旋,僅作為旁觀者。美國飛行員的挫折感與我們感受到的遺棄與背叛是同等的:他們顯然被禁止介入,而強迫目睹了地面的戰鬥。被塔利班火力淹沒的同時,我的士兵們可以聽見飛機的聲音,他們問為什麼沒有空中支援。
士氣就這樣崩潰,阿富汗各地的士兵都停止了戰鬥。我們在激戰中守住了拉什卡爾加,但隨著鄉村陷落我們失去持續戰鬥的支援,只好撤退回基地。我的軍團甚至在我被召回喀布爾之後繼續戰鬥,他們是最後投降的部隊之一:堅持到了首都淪陷以後。
We were betrayed by politics and presidents.
This was not an Afghan war only; it was an international war, with many
militaries involved. It would have been impossible for one army alone, ours,
to take up the job and fight. This was a military defeat, but it emanated from political failure.
我們被政治與總統們背叛了。
這不僅是一場阿富汗戰爭,這是一場國際戰事。多個國家的軍隊都介入了,這是不可能只靠我們一隻軍隊就接手完成的戰鬥。他確實是一場軍事敗仗,但卻源自於政治上的失敗。
--
看完了,都是They的錯
“被塔利班火力淹沒” 腦中浮現以前板上分享過的忘
了哪裡的一隻軍隊衝鋒 結果兩邊開槍沒打中半個 另一
邊就被衝垮了
白刃衝鋒其實比一般人想得更需要組織度與紀律
不管是晚清或軍閥內戰/抗戰 乃至現代戰爭 有能力發
起白刃戰且獲勝的軍隊 其實都是素質更好的那方
進一點的有英軍白刃衝鋒擊退聖戰士 遠一點的中日
戰爭 能打近戰的也不是那些拉丁的士兵 而是中央軍或
其他軍閥的精銳 當然還有日軍
其實塔利班也沒有空中武力啊~政府軍因為美國承包商
走了就無法用先進武器 那就回歸陸軍步兵跟塔利斑拚
我相信他的部隊是有戰力的 但一萬五千名士兵無法改
步兵營連排戰鬥啊~沒了攻擊機/直昇機/坦克 政府軍就
變什麼了
嚷嚷打不過同樣沒攻擊機/直昇機/坦克 的塔利班士兵?
它國家GDP只有菲律賓幾十分之一
基本禁不起持續內亂 越打越破敗
你能給他們槍彈 他們想要的卻是機票
離開這個破敗的國家
開始好奇起來 過去20年美援只花在軍備上嗎?基礎建
設都沒有?
雖然阿富汗本身就不能期待他重建這20年能有什麼自主
產業
https://is.gd/8EGu6Cx樓上有興趣請參考這本
美援跟軍援都有 但杯水車薪
它20年來GDP也是有成長幾倍
但基期超超低 幾倍以後還是超低
戰亂導致也就罌粟與走私較有搞頭
但別的國家也在成長 然後美元貶值
所以20年前與後都近菲律賓1/20產值
沒因為動亂更慘大概就援助的效果....
憑啥你一直在內亂不斷 還想追上別人
別國又不是條件比你差
不是有輸血有吃飯就會體質變強壯
因為你傷口(內亂)還一直噴血啊
感謝好人鷹
美國人給的錢拿去買武器 中國人給的錢拿去買軍閥
這就是最大的差別 其它什麼理由隨便看看就好
好人鷹那個連結失效?
因為連結跟推文混合在一起被辨識成超連結(?
多一個x啦 https://is.gd/8EGu6C
這樣還是正確的
這樣才是正確的
感謝樓上!忘了提醒那本是睡前讀物...XD
那個國家不值得同情,扶持20年,都過一個世代了,
還是爛到無可救藥。只要不出來國外亂,沒理由再去
幫
樓上以為20年很久阿,這可是個多民族分裂國家啊
多民族分裂國家沒救
以維持目前疆界的統一為前提 要嘛出個毛澤東殺人殺
到沒有阻力 要嘛國外持續輸入資源百年撫平各軍閥
其下一代民族和解 中間還得沒有其他勢力介入
英國把次大陸捏成一個國家也花了近一世紀
雖然不是刻意為之,而且最後還是分裂成三個國家
東北部孟加拉旁哪塊其實也很有可能獨立,離中央真的
太遠文化差異也不全是印度教文化,是印度軍力還夠強
不然早就壓不住
多種族都爛,跟一個種族爛,有差嗎?就是爛啊。有
時候4年就可以改變很多東西了,何況20年
多種族爛的問題就是國內分化,這有時不是時間的問題
族群和解可是說起來簡單 但是做起來難如登天的問題
沒有阿富汗意識的話 碎片or邦聯是合理的統治方式
俄國從理想到解體也是花了不少時間加上合適的契機
且別忘了 俄國從來沒有達成族群和解,俄國花了多少年
?
畢竟兩個地方環境實力不同 最有機會長久發展的王朝
時期也被政變搞掉了
俄國至少還有歐洲勢力的影響,阿富汗則是被回教勢力
影響,資源 價值觀跟路線一直都不同
最好的例子就是50年代的菲律賓還是亞洲最強,也是受
美國扶持(這裡當然是經濟實力),相較於同時間的台灣
但是五十年後就是完全不同了..
只能說阿富汗最有機會的時期就這樣被搞掉了
台灣光兩大陣營內鬥就錯失不少機會,一個還在起步
陣營更多的國家光整合資源就有問題了,絕非4年甚至
10年就能解決
別忘了台灣很多重大變革是沒經流血,所以看起來很
容易,但這在世界上其實是非常少有的特例
是的 台灣真的是奇蹟
台韓條件都得耗近半世紀才崛起
阿富汗這種條件甚至被菲律賓海放...
族群融合最起碼是幾個世代起跳
阿富汗是位置差 70年代就被蘇聯插手
從世俗王政時代直接倒退到宗教領政
長期戰亂導致宗教更加根深蒂固
離世俗與融合已無限遙遠
猶太國一開始建立也是被蘇聯插手啊,更何況到現在猶
太教勢力領政的狀況還是正常,但是以色列隨即調整了
方向,更不用講資源~阿富汗資源可是遠勝以色列的..
國家的興起背後有太多變數跟運氣了...
猶太那不是被蘇聯插手 是援助
英美先承認以色列 但拉攏阿拉伯有石油
當時以色列對西方沒戰略價值
蘇聯從控制的捷克轉口提供軍火
給早期猶太軍事援助,但猶太仍不算親蘇
隨後泛阿拉伯主義崛起 再伊斯蘭世界黑化
猶太成為西方嚇阻中東勢力的支點
猶太很努力+各種援助扶持源源不絕
看來無窮無盡 戰略條件比阿富汗好太多太多
猶太建國當初一堆元老都有相關的背景啊,只是他們太
了解蘇聯了,很快就轉向西方了~領導層見識畢竟不同..
蘇聯的插手在建國前幫助猶太人塞爆英國的拘留所就開
始了,猶太國的面積當初還是國務院用文字手法砍一片
後來蘇維埃想要插手的時候,以色列的領導層早有戒心
所以 沒有讓蘇聯的援助>變成實質的介入
爆
[分享] 前英軍老兵:塔利班比俄軍士兵還優秀Ex-British Army sniper who served in Afghanistan and is now volunteering in Ukraine says the Taliban were better fighters than Russian soldiers, report says 一名34歲的退役英軍狙擊手 Shane Matthew ,曾經兩度至阿富汗作戰,41
[翻譯文] 阿富汗的淪亡不是註定的,而是有意放棄原文網址 背景介紹: 這是美國陸軍退役中校Jason Amerine於8月17號投書CNN的文章。 他是美國陸軍軍官學校1993年班畢業,於2001年擔任駐阿富汗特戰部隊的領導職。3
Re: [新聞] 紐時:美國拋棄阿富汗 台灣應警醒這篇根本選擇性翻譯 原文: 節錄其中幾段 The country expressing the most concern has been China, which shares a short, remote border with Afghanistan, which under the Taliban served as a haven for2
Re: [新聞] 拜登明確表態:如有人入侵台灣 美國會回就中國的官媒環球時報拿阿富汗恐嚇台灣 貼個 newsweek 的報導 簡單說就是中國官媒「警告台灣,台灣就是下一個阿富汗,美國一樣會放棄你」 這個報導在國外論壇也引起了廣泛討論2
Re: [新聞] 阿富汗女性連笑都不行?塔利班「29條禁令taliban-subjugation The Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan has published a list of all the impediments that women can face under the political and social directives of the radical Islamist Taliban. According to the list,2
Re: [問卦] 阿富汗政府軍打都不打就烙跑是怎樣= =?(WSJ) How the Taliban Overran the Afghan Army, Built by the U.S. Over 20 Years - Afghanistan's military was molded to match American operations and collapsed without U.S. air support and intelligence 看看華爾街日報 8月 14日這篇。 美國20年訓練阿富汗軍隊,用的是美軍那一套方法,全世界最先進的軍事觀念。 地面部隊結合空軍優勢。空軍負責補給,提供火力,運送傷兵,情報偵蒐。