Re: [新聞] 美與北約準備丟包烏克蘭? 北約暗勸「妥

※ 引述《hesenberg (2030美食家 )》之銘言：
: ※ 引述《fw190a (las)》之銘言：

實際談話內容出至北約秘書長Jens Stoltenberg和芬蘭總統Sauli Niinnisto
6月12號的講話內容，以下附上原始連結和翻譯節錄
https://reurl.cc/e3Ad3K
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_196300.htm?selectedLocale=en

JENS STOLTENBERG: So first to the question of whether peace is possible. Yes,peace is possible.The question is what kind of peace? Because if Ukraine
withdraw its forces and stop fighting, then Ukraine will cease to exist as anindependent, sovereign nation in Europe. If President Putin stops fighting,
then we’ll have peace.

史托騰伯格：首先對於「和平是否是有可能的」？當然，和平是有可能達成的。問題
是，我們說的是哪一種和平？如果烏克蘭撤回他們的部隊, 並且停止戰鬥，(那我們就
能達成和平)，但烏克蘭就再也無法作為一個主權獨立的歐洲國家。或是如果俄羅斯
總統普丁停止戰爭，那我們也能迎來和平。

So the dilemma is, of course, that peace is always possible. Surrender can
provide peace. But as we have seen, the Ukrainians, they don’t accept peace
at any price. They are actually willing to pay a very high price for their
independence. And again, Finland is a country that really knows the price forpeace and also the price for independence and being a sovereign nation.

史托騰伯格：所以我們的困境是，要達成和平當然總是可能的，投降能帶來和平。但是我們已經看到，烏克蘭不會妥協於這種和平。實際上，烏克蘭人有意願為了他們的獨立付出高昂代價。同樣地，芬蘭是一個確實知道和平和主權獨立價值的國家。
(註:芬蘭在二戰後，與俄羅斯在領土問題上發生過嚴重的衝突)

And it’s not for me to judge how high price the Ukrainians should be willing
to pay. I mean, we pay a price because we provide support, we see the economiceffects of the economic sanctions. But there is no doubt, as you said Sauli,
that the highest price is paid by Ukrainians every day. And therefore it’s forthem to judge, not for me, what is the price they are willing to pay, for peaceand for independence?

史托騰伯格：我不去替烏克蘭人判斷(為主權獨立)付出多少代價是適當的。我的意思是，北約因為提供支援、金融制裁受到一些經濟上的影響，但是就像Sauli你說的一樣，烏克蘭人才是為這場戰爭付出最沈重代價的人。因此，不應該由北約，而該由烏克蘭人自己去判斷為了主權獨立和和平願意付出多少代價。

(中略)

is that as President Zelensky has stated many times, this war will end at thenegotiating table. The question is what kind of position will the Ukrainians
have when they negotiate a solution? Our responsibility is to make that
position as strong as possible. We know that there is a very close link between what you can achieve at the negotiating table and your position at the
battlefield. So our military support to them is a way to strengthen their handat the negotiating table when they, hopefully soon, will sit there and
negotiate the peace agreement.

史托騰伯格：就像烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基多次強調得，這場戰爭將在談判桌上結束。問題是烏克蘭人在談判桌協商時會處於什麼樣的立場? 北約的責任是讓烏克蘭人能盡量站在優勢的立場上協商。戰場情況和烏克蘭能在談判桌能達成的成果有非常緊密的連結，因此北約的軍事援助將能帶給烏克蘭人在談判桌上關鍵的幫助。希望我們能盡快坐下開始協商和平協議。

So that was ‘peace is possible’ – that’s not the question anyway, the
question is: what price are you willing to pay for peace? How much territory?How much independence? How much sovereignty? How much freedom? How much
democracy are you willing to sacrifice for peace? And that’s a very difficultmoral dilemma. And it’s for those who are paying the highest price to make
that judgement. Our responsibility is to support them.

史托騰伯格：這是關於「和平是否可能」的部分，這件事沒有什麼好懷疑的，問題是：你願意為了和平犧牲多少代價？多少領土？多少獨立性？多少主權？多少自由？多少民主？這是一個困難的道德難題，只該由目前承擔最沈重代價的人做出判斷，而北約的責任是去支持他們的選擇。

(後略)

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